…stories of growth and stages of belief…
Well, another interesting concept came out of the discussion I wrote about yesterday between Neale Donald Walsch and Ken Wilber. (It’s available on IntegralNaked.Org) They were saying that many of us who have moved beyond the Ethnocentric (or Faithful) stage have gone through what they are calling a “Hmmm….. moment.” This is where a Read the rest of this entry »
I just listened to an online conversation between Neale Donald Walsch and Ken Wilber (on IntegralNaked. Org - you have to join to listen) and I was reminded of some other terminolgy that may make the concept of these stages more clear.
Ken Wilber uses the terms Egocentric to refer to people in the group I am calling the Read the rest of this entry »
Another confusion: New Age as Stage Four
Just because we call our Stage Fours Mystic and Communal, it seems some people are prone to mistake what I am calling Stage Four with New Age beliefs. Nothing could be Read the rest of this entry »
This is something I wrote to publish elsewhere on the net - for people who have not yet read anything I have posted here. I am including it here as a simple introduction for any new readers on the blog. As I am starting to use new terminology, it will also serve as a refresher for readers who have been with me from the beginning. MPJ
Simplifying the works I have read by various stage theorists on spiritual and religious growth, I have reduced the possible stages to four.
You didn’t know people could “grow” in terms of religious belief and spirituality? Yes, it was Read the rest of this entry »
I ran across this question in a forum I follow.
How do you define god? I don’t believe that god is one person - does that make me an atheist?
As the person later deleted the question, I could not answer it within the forum, so I will answer it here. A person’s view of god apparently depends a lot upon their stage of spirituality. “look at the god they follow to understand the person.”
Well, in the case of the Lawless, the only god for these people is their own will. The “god” they follow will thus be as chaotic and Lawless as they are, swinging one way or the other from day to day, as they do.
Next, look at the Faithful - their god is a separate, usually male, being “in the sky.” This is the exact type of god these people need - they need an external being who will judge their worthiness, punish them if they digress, and most of all, favor them over all other groups. Why does this god fit the faithful so well? Well, they themselves are in need of external controls to govern their behavior and there is a certain insecurity to them that makes the idea of being chosen and more right than other groups very appealing. They need a god who will grant their wishes and keep their behavior in order.
For the Rationals, their “god” is some concept of goodness - truth, beauty, justice, other people (humanists!) or possibly even material success! Their god has little to do with rules and being chosen above others because these people do not need to rules to govern their behavior and, while they do want to believe they are right, they have no need of feeling they are more worthy than others.
For the Mystics, their god is mostly within. Within themselves, all others, the world, the universe, consciousness, whatever.
So if you don’t believe that god is one person, well, what does your “god’ look like? Does he look like you by any chance? Your view of god will tell you what level you are at. I believe the word “atheist” only applies if your view of god fails to conform to the description accepted by the Faithful.
Lets assume I am going to change my terminology from Stages One through Four to the terms the Lawless (for Stage Ones) the Faithful (for Stage Twos) the Rational (for Stage Threes) and the Mystics (for Stage Four.)
That allows us to examine the problem from a different angle. A major distinction we really need is that of submission. Yes, Read the rest of this entry »
Yesterday I posted an article about how when someone is considered bad because they don’t believe in God, there is a fatal flaw in the argument. If someone calls themselves an atheist they most likely are a member of what I am calling here the “Rational” group - the Stage Threes. They have reasoned Read the rest of this entry »
When you hear members of The Faithful group saying “atheists” are bad people, condemned to eternal punishment, etc. there is one aspect of their argument that is fatally flawed. The group they are calling “atheists” are not the ones who would call themselves atheists. In most cases, real atheists are Read the rest of this entry »
I recently listened to a talk by Ken Wilber (http://in.integralinstitute.org/live - you have to be a subscriber to listen) and it hit me that the words he used this time might just help clarify the concept of the stages.
Ken usually refers to many stages (listed in colors: red, blue orange, green, turquoise, etc) and with so many stages the distinctions among them are less Read the rest of this entry »
I got into a discussion with a friend about these stages. After a bit I came to realize we had both allowed ourselves to slip into a mindset where people with politically liberal leanings were considered to be Stage Threes. The next day it hit me what a mistake Read the rest of this entry »